jimmylogan wrote to Dr. What <=-

I'm saying that the state has no business running my life. Period.

Not to put words in your mouth, but you mean in abortion cases, right?

Correct.

But we need to make sure that we are talking about the same thing.

There's the woman who wants to have an abortion because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her bad decisions. I have no problems with that being illegal. There are many other options other than abortion here.

But then there's the medical complications that can occur with pregnancy and birth. Like I said, that's a decision made by the husband, wife and doctor and the state should keep its nose out of that.

You're okay with the government taking tax money, making laws about traffic, requiring you to have an ID, etc.?

I'm not OK with any of that. But I can only fight one battle at any given time.

Remember that the bigger we make the gov't, the smaller We The People are. We originally set up our gov't to have the smallest amount of authority as needed to ensure our rights.


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Right now abortion is legal in most places, and probably growing, but it doesn't make it morally right.

No one is asking you to go against your morals, or asking to abide by theirs.

Then don't ask for me to pay for it either.

How are they making you pay for it?

That fetus has all the rights given to it from the constitution after the 1st trimester.

I believe life begins at fertilization, so I'm against it all. BUT -
your poposal has merit! That would save a TON of lives, which is
much more than is being done now.

For every 100 abortions, only 7 are performed outside of the first
trimester.


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Again, in Tennessee there are no reports of this. There are people claiming it happens, because it goes against what they are pushing, but it's not actually happening.

It is happening. I haven't put a point on it, I'm just saying that it is happening.

It may not be happening right now. That part of the Tennessee law...
doctor's getting in trouble for assisting women in emergencies... is not currently being enforced. It has been suspended pending the outcome of a lawsuit.

If they lawsuit is decided in Tennessee's favor then, yes, I am positive it will happen.


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You're okay with the government taking tax money, making laws about traffic, requiring you to have an ID, etc.?

I'm not OK with any of that. But I can only fight one battle at any given time.

Certainly you want them to have a govermnet issued ID, that they can present when voting, right?


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Ron L. wrote to jimmylogan <=-

There's the woman who wants to have an abortion because she doesn't
want to take responsibility for her bad decisions. I have no problems with that being illegal. There are many other options other than
abortion here.

But then there's the medical complications that can occur with
pregnancy and birth. Like I said, that's a decision made by the
husband, wife and doctor and the state should keep its nose out of
that.

Here's my stand on that. If a medical procedure to save the mother's
life results in the unplanned side effect of the baby dying, that's
an unfortunate thing.

If the intention is not to save the mother's life but to simply kill
the baby - that I am NOT okay with.

You're okay with the government taking tax money, making laws about traffic, requiring you to have an ID, etc.?

I'm not OK with any of that. But I can only fight one battle at any
given time.

Remember that the bigger we make the gov't, the smaller We The People
are. We originally set up our gov't to have the smallest amount of authority as needed to ensure our rights.

I'll go along with that! Of course at the time our government was set up
we didn't have people sacrificing children...




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Mike Powell wrote to JIMMYLOGAN <=-

Right now abortion is legal in most places, and probably growing, but it doesn't make it morally right.

No one is asking you to go against your morals, or asking to abide by theirs.

Then don't ask for me to pay for it either.

How are they making you pay for it?

If the liberals have their way, universal healthcare includes abortion -
and is funded by taxpayer money.

That fetus has all the rights given to it from the constitution after the 1st trimester.

I believe life begins at fertilization, so I'm against it all. BUT -
your poposal has merit! That would save a TON of lives, which is
much more than is being done now.

For every 100 abortions, only 7 are performed outside of the first trimester.

So 7 lives in 100 would be saved. That's better than zero!








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On 10 Nov 2024, jimmylogan said the following...

So suicide should be legal and assisted suicide available, since people will do it anyway?

It's now legal in Canada...

IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
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On 11 Nov 2024, IB Joe exclaimed the following...

So suicide should be legal and assisted suicide available, since peop will do it anyway?

It's now legal in Canada...

It is, and they are adding additional reasons and/or constraints daily to the availability of MAID.

Currently you must:

have a serious illness, disease or disability
be in an advanced state of decline that cannot be reversed
experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from your illness, disease, disability or state of decline that cannot be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable
You do not need to have a fatal or terminal condition to be eligible for medical assistance in dying.

Pretty much anyone who's 'Fed Up'

Mick Manning
@ Mick's Place
centralontarioremote.net:23

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Mike Powell wrote to ALAN IANSON <=-

It is happening. I haven't put a point on it, I'm just saying that it is happening.

It may not be happening right now.

It is happening now. I am not talking about Tennessee. I don't know what rights Tennesse law affords women but I have read of this in Texas and other red states.

That part of the Tennessee law... doctor's getting in trouble for assisting women in emergencies... is not currently being enforced.
It has been suspended pending the outcome of a lawsuit.

If they lawsuit is decided in Tennessee's favor then, yes, I am
positive it will happen.

I hope this will not happen in Tennesse or other states.

Ttyl :-),
Al

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jimmylogan wrote to Dr. What <=-

If the intention is not to save the mother's life but to simply kill
the baby - that I am NOT okay with.

Then we are on the same page here with Abortion.

I'll go along with that! Of course at the time our government was set
up we didn't have people sacrificing children...

One of the goals that the Elitists have is creating a "Dependant Class" that always votes them back in office. They've actually gone a long way in that as evidenced by the votes in the last election. A good number still voted for the Dems.

Part of creating that class is to keep people "childish". i.e. deferring to "authority", not having to take responsibility for their actions, etc.

The "abortion on demand" was part of the "not having to take responsibility" part of this conditioning.

The example that I use here is to imagine a little kid. He wants a balloon. So his parents get him one. Being a kid, he lets the balloon go. He watches it go up and up and then realizes that it's not coming back. He cries so his parents get him a new balloon and tie it to his wrist.

Next year, same little kid. He gets his balloon. He lets it go. He cries. But this time he's told "No. You knew what was going to happen. It's your fault you lost your balloon." And the kid matures a little that day.

The Elitists want to halt that as much as possible.


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On 11 Nov 2024, Mickey said the following...

You do not need to have a fatal or terminal condition to be eligible for medical assistance in dying.

I hear being married to a Liberal was an other reason.

IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
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Mike Powell wrote to ALAN IANSON <=-

The person you responded to, with you quote at the top of the message,
was speaking specifically about his state - Tennessee. I agree it is happening in other states. I provided a couple of links to issues in Louisiana in another message earlier in this discussion.

Jimmy may be talking about Tennesse, I was not.

I simply (or not so simply, if you prefer) said this is what is happening today.

Ttyl :-),
Al

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Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

And no abortions leads to more people that become part of the
"dependent class," which leads to more childish people who don't take responsibility for any of their (other) actions.

I don't see a win-win in making it mostly illegal.

But you assume that they will just keep getting pregnant, even if they can't get an abortion. I don't believe that's true. Some will, of course, but most won't after the first one - even if they give the baby up for adoption.

But abortion is now a STATE issue. So the people who want abortions will simply move to a state (like the People's Socialist Utopia of California) that allows it on demand, any time and paid for by the state. In a way, it would consolidate all the childish adults into one area that wants those kinds of people.

But in any case, abortion is a "distraction issue". It's emotional and gets people to direct attention there instead of other, more important, issues.


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But in any case, abortion is a "distraction issue". It's emotional and gets people to direct attention there instead of other, more important, issues.

We agree on this 100%.

Someone I have known since we were kids, and who grew up to be a Democrat, pointed out that Kamala's biggest mistake was making that issue (a
distraction issue) the biggest of her campaign. He pointed out that the
Trump campaign stayed on point with their message regarding the economy,
and that the economy is bad enough that most voters are going to be more worried about putting food on the table than they are abortions.

Since then I have seen a lot of media talking heads point out the same
thing, and they are correct.


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Ron L. wrote to jimmylogan <=-

jimmylogan wrote to Dr. What <=-

The example that I use here is to imagine a little kid. He wants a balloon. So his parents get him one. Being a kid, he lets the balloon
go. He watches it go up and up and then realizes that it's not coming back. He cries so his parents get him a new balloon and tie it to his wrist.

Next year, same little kid. He gets his balloon. He lets it go. He cries. But this time he's told "No. You knew what was going to happen.
It's your fault you lost your balloon." And the kid matures a little that day.

The Elitists want to halt that as much as possible.

That's a GREAT visual!!!




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Mike Powell wrote to JIMMYLOGAN <=-

If the liberals have their way, universal healthcare includes abortion -
and is funded by taxpayer money.

So is taking care of unwanted children.

For every 100 abortions, only 7 are performed outside of the first trimester.

So 7 lives in 100 would be saved. That's better than zero!

It would actually be closer to 4 lives if Joe's percentages on the
number of those that are due to medical emergencies is correct.

As I have said before, unless you are out there adopting these kids, or are happily paying the extra tax dollars to help raise them (with NO complaints EVER about high taxes), you really should not get a say in
it.

I am not adopting, and don't like paying the government more money, so
I should *not* be telling women they cannot get an abortion.

As I have seen *zero* stories in here from the pro-life crowd about how they personally have adopted a ton of unwanted kids, and how well it is going for them, it is my opinion that none of us should be telling
women that.

So, let me see if I get this right...

"I don't want to pay more nor adopt, so it's okay for a woman to murder
an unborn child."

Does that sum it up? And if so, does morality not count for anything?







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As I have seen *zero* stories in here from the pro-life crowd about how they personally have adopted a ton of unwanted kids, and how well it is going for them, it is my opinion that none of us should be telling
women that.

So, let me see if I get this right...

"I don't want to pay more nor adopt, so it's okay for a woman to murder
an unborn child."

Does that sum it up? And if so, does morality not count for anything?

No. IMHO, if morality was even the least bit involved, those who think it
is ok for a mother to be forced to carry a child they don't want would be tripping over themselves to pitch in to take care of that child.

Instead, most of them will bristle at the least hint of their time or tax
money being used to assist in keeping these kids safe and healthy. They hide behind "morality" when in reality they don't give a rat's about those kids.

There is absolutely nothing moral about that stance.

That may not be the case for you but I can guarantee if you get a couple of
the participants here going about how abortion is bad "because the kids,"
they will eventually wear down some and show their real feelings about it,
and it won't have anything to do with morals or religion.


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Mike Powell wrote to JIMMYLOGAN <=-

As I have seen *zero* stories in here from the pro-life crowd about how they personally have adopted a ton of unwanted kids, and how well it is going for them, it is my opinion that none of us should be telling women that.

So, let me see if I get this right...

"I don't want to pay more nor adopt, so it's okay for a woman to murder
an unborn child."

Does that sum it up? And if so, does morality not count for anything?

No. IMHO, if morality was even the least bit involved, those who think
it is ok for a mother to be forced to carry a child they don't want
would be tripping over themselves to pitch in to take care of that
child.

Okay - let's set aside 'what others think.' I'm asking YOU. Is it okay
for a mother to murder an unborn child? That's the crux of it.

Instead, most of them will bristle at the least hint of their time or
tax money being used to assist in keeping these kids safe and healthy. They hide behind "morality" when in reality they don't give a rat's
about those kids.

There is absolutely nothing moral about that stance.

That may not be the case for you but I can guarantee if you get a
couple of the participants here going about how abortion is bad
"because the kids," they will eventually wear down some and show their real feelings about it, and it won't have anything to do with morals or religion.

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